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Tim Wise Essayist/Polemicist

Holocaust Denial, American Style

November 28, 2008, 8:13 am

Recently, after a presentation to teachers about racial bias in high school curricula, I got into a tiny spat with an instructor who objected to my using the word "holocaust" to describe the process by which nearly 99% of indigenous Americans perished from the 1400s to the present day. He also objected to the use of the term to describe the experience of Africans, forcibly kidnapped and enslaved throughout the hemisphere. 

The teacher seemed especially concerned that as a fellow Jew I would suggest that our people had not been the greatest victims in world history, let alone sui generis in our suffering; that I would offer as a possibility the idea that others had also faced mass death, even extermination, and that there was no such thing as "The" Holocaust, but rather, several such events in history, including but not limited to the one perpetrated in the name of Hitlerism, which claimed millions of victims: Jews, Roma, homosexuals, communists and the disabled. 

In defense of his position he averred that the definition of holocaust was "a genocidal program carried out with the intent of completely exterminating the target group." This, he insisted, was not what had happened to blacks or Indian folks. The former had been valued as forced labor, thus there had been no campaign of deliberate murder launched against them, and the latter had died mostly from disease (coincidentally one presumes). As such, the homicidal intentionality that motivated the Nazis could not be ascribed equally to the colonists, or the slavers of the West, and the term "holocaust" simply didn't apply.

There is much that could be said here, and I managed to say most of it at the time, concerned as I was that someone entrusted to fill the minds of young people should find himself in such a confused position as this.

First, before addressing the inaccuracy of the teacher's historical and etymological wisdom, there was the matter of why he had felt it necessary to rank oppressions in the first place, especially when the three cases being discussed had been of such magnitude as to make them among the gravest crimes in history. After all, there comes a point where tallying body counts, or trying to compare suffering of this scale approaches the threshold of mendacity, only to cross it violently on its way to obscenity. I queried as to the wisdom of his particular taxonomy of terrors, only to be met by a look of disdain, as if it should be quite apparent, without having to withstand scrutiny, that Jews had suffered worse than any others in the history of the cosmos: something he noted he made clear to his black students, so as to help them "put things in perspective" whenever they opted to focus on that which had been done to them. How nice.

But in addition to the strange psychology, by which some folks apparently need to be the biggest and most sympathetic victims, the teacher that day simply had it wrong. His definition of holocaust was purely fabricated, comporting with no actual dictionary version upon which he could truthfully claim reliance, and had been offered up without the slightest regard for the term's actual and easily discovered origins. As it turns out, the word holocaust is defined in most dictionaries as "destruction or slaughter on a mass scale," and derives from a Greek term for a sacrifice made upon a burnt altar. 

This somewhat theological etymology probably explains why the term preferred by many Jews to describe Hitler's FInal Solution is not Holocaust at all, but rather the Hebrew term, shoah, since to equate the killing of millions of Jews with a sacrifical offering to God carries with it fairly obvious and disturbing connotations and places Hitler's maniacal practices on a par with ancient religious rites.

Shoah, in comparison, means any "catastrophe, calamity or disaster," and, as with holocaust, relies not at all upon deliberate extermination as a necessary component to the term's factual fulfillment. 

That clarified, the only issue then should be whether or not the indigenous of the Americas or those enslaved here experienced large-scale death: a point requiring little debate or deliberation, as the historical record on this point is clear. The Middle Passage, without which enslavement in the Americas could not have progressed, claimed millions of lives, and as many as 93 million indigenous persons perished in the Americas following the onset of European conquest. That such facts as these suggest a Holocaust, a genocide of monumental proportions, should be obvious. Sadly, it is not.

And so this Thanksgiving morning, I awoke to discover a nationally-syndicated column in my local paper by Mona Charen, who felt as though the best use of her weekly 700 word-limit would be to deny that which history tells us is apparent: that the native persons whose conquering we are in effect celebrating today did indeed suffer a genocidal extermination. Such a claim as this, to hear Charen tell it is not only factually false, but a left-wing conspiratorial calumny placed upon the nation's head by radicals intent on warping the views of children and turning them into America-haters.

Charen, borrowing from conservative talk-show host Michael Medved's recent bookThe 10 Big Lies About America, argues that the charge of genocide leveled against our nation's founders "cannot withstand scrutiny," because Indian deaths were not principally the result of overt extermination campaigns. As Charen explains it, Indian depopulation was merely the happenstance consequence of diseases against which the natives had, sadly, no immunity (Charen calls this a "tragedy, but not a crime"), and the fact that the Europeans were technologically superior. 

That the superior and "more advanced" civilization should prevail in such an instance has nothing to do with the desire by that bunch to destructively press its advantage against others, according to Charen, and nothing to do with greed or the maniacal desire to enrich oneself at all costs, but is simply the "usual course in human affairs." In other words, we should presume that the clash of civilizations in the Americas had been inevitable, as if the Europeans had had no choice but to take to the high seas, in search of riches and land; as if the North American continental shelf had possessed some kind of literal magnet, the pull of which simply could not be physically resisted by the white man, who then, amid tears and anguish, had no recourse but to spread throughout the western hemisphere. Reducing a half-millennium long process of displacement and destruction to the equivalent of a "Shit Happens" bumper sticker, Charen suggests we should happily consume our annual turkey and dressing absent so much as a twinge of remorse.

Of course, as with the previously mentioned teacher, Charen's position (and that of Medved, whose shtick she was pushing in this latest column) lacks even a rudimentary flirtation with intellectual honesty.

To begin, Medved and Charen suggest that to qualify as genocide, an action must, according to the 1948 UN Convention on Genocide, be carried out with the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, racial or religious group." As with the teacher who insisted that Indians died of disease and thus were hardly the victims of a holocaust, so too these professional atrocity-deniers, who claim the deaths of millions of indigenous persons was virtually an accident. Yet the specific acts carried out against native peoples here are all mentioned explicitly in Article 2 of the Genocide Convention, and as such fall under its aegis. According to the UN, such acts include:

a) Killing members of the group;
b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; 
c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and/or,
e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Any of those things alone would qualify as an act of genocide, and yet each one of them has been part of the treatment received by indigenous persons at the hands of the U.S. government, or the pre-nationhood colonists. Indians were indeed killed, with the intent of destroying entire bands of natives, in whole or in part. Serious bodily and mental harm was surely inflicted, quite deliberately. Indians were removed from their homes and relocated in large numbers on reservations, which meets both clause b and c of the definition. Indian women were forcibly sterilized--as many as 100,000 during the twentieth century, and even as many as 3000 a year into the early 1970s--thereby satisfying clause d; and as many as 80% of all Indian children were forcibly removed from their homes and families and sent to boarding schools, while others were forcibly adopted-out to white families, and in both cases, stripped of native language, culture and religion during the 1900s, thereby meeting the final clause of the very definition Charen and Medved use to suggest that no genocide occurred.

Both Charen and Medved insist that since most Indians died of disease, rather than direct violence, they cannot be the victims of genocide, but seeing as how the definition of genocide fails to require mass death at all, this argument holds disturbingly little weight. Not to mention, had it not been for conquest, those diseases to which Indians had no resistance--and which colonists praised as the "work of God," clearing the land for them--wouldn't have ravaged the native populations as they did. To imply that such deaths were merely accidental or incidental would be like saying the Nazis bore no responsibility for the 1.6 million or so Jews who died of disease and starvation in the camps, rather than having been gassed or shot. But try saying that at your local neighborhood synagogue and see how far you get, with good reason.

Of course, there is more than enough evidence of the intentionality of Indian-killing to suggest that genocide occurred, even if we were to accept the inaccurate interpretation of the term's definition put forward by Charen and Medved.

And so we have George Washington in 1779, sending a letter to Major General John Sullivan, that he should "lay waste" to all Iroquois settlements, so that their lands may not be "merely overrun but destroyed."

And we have Thomas Jefferson telling his Secretary of War that any tribe that resisted the taking of their land by the United States must be met with force, and that once the hatchet of war had been raised, "we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or is driven beyond the Mississippi...in war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them."

And we have Andrew Jackson overseeing the scalping of as many as 800 slaughtered Creek Indians at Tohopeka (Horseshoe Bend), and bragging of preserving the "sculps" of those he killed in battle. And then, during the Second Seminole War, we have Jackson admonishing the troops to "capture or destroy" all the nation's women and children.

Open and deliberate calls for mass murder and destruction of entire Indian peoples were common. So, for instance, during the laying of the Northern Pacific Railroad through the Montana territory, the area's chief of Indian affairs noted that if the Sioux (Lakota and Dakota) peoples continued to "molest" the laying of the track and the progress symbolized by it, a military force should be sent to punish them "even to annihilation."

In other words, that widespread death of indigenous peoples was the desired (thus intended) outcome of conquest is hard to deny. To suggest that no such intent existed, simply because so many millions succumbed to disease ignores not only that such diseases were welcomed and celebrated (and occasionally spread deliberately), but also implies that had Indian folk not died from disease, they would have been allowed to live and remain on their lands. Yet we know this is not true, any more than the Nazis would have allowed those Jews who died in the camps from typhus to live, had the disease never taken its toll. That disease made the land-clearing and conquest easier--and relieved the white man of the burden of having to actually fight for their spoils in many cases--hardly relieves the beneficiaries of the moral weight of such an end.

What is especially sad is that by excusing genocide, Charen and Medved (and others) perpetuate our identification with those who did the killing and thieving, rather than either the victims, or even the members of the dominant culture who stood against such depravities. Modern-day whites, for instance, could choose to identify with those persons of European descent who stood up against the taking of indigenous land and lives: people like Bartolome de las Casas, Jeremiah Evarts, or Helen Hunt Jackson, just to name a few. But we can hardly feel a kinship with such folks if we know nothing of them--and we know nothing of them, or little, because our schools have been so busy telling us of the heroism and greatness of the architects of genocide, rather than encouraging a connection with those who stood up and said no. That such whites have existed however, in all times and places during the spread of white supremacy, suggests there has always been a different path that we of European background could have chosen. 

If we are to be thankful at this time of year, we should be thankful for their example. We should be thankful that within us resides the spark of decency that animated their resistance to the plans of the colonial elite, and later the Washingtons, Jeffersons and Jacksons of their day. We are capable of so much better than they, and we deserve far better role models than we have been offered up to now, by our teachers, or by syndicated columnists and talk-show hosts more interested in covering up evil than celebrating true bravery.

Yolanda Carrington

Yolanda Carrington says:

What a stand-up guy, that teacher

I queried as to the wisdom of his particular taxonomy of terrors, only to be met by a look of disdain, as if it should be quite apparent, without having to withstand scrutiny, that Jews had suffered worse than any others in the history of the cosmos: something he noted he made clear to his black students, so as to help them "put things in perspective" whenever they opted to focus on that which had been done to them. How nice.

Pardon my ad hominem language, but what an asshole.  Playing oppression olympics with youth that he's entrusted with educating is bad enough, but to get into an intellectual pissing contest with these kids about the horrific crimes against humanity that were done to their ancestors? Who freakin' died and made this fool God, I ask you?

Sadly, this kind of tripe seems to be typical of white folks who are members of oppressed groups, be they women, working people, Jewish folk, or LBGT folk. Scapegoating of people of color, condescension toward POC communities, and fallacious comparisons between racism and homophobia/sexism/anti-Semitism (as experienced by otherwise privileged white folks) are the common symptoms of this phenomenon. And without fail, these comparisions have the strange effect of minimizing the deadly consequences of white supremacy. Funny how that happens.

 

Brittany Porter

Brittany Porter says:

re: Yolanda

 

Ms. Honora,

Please notice she did not say "everyone." Yes, she is making a generalization but in my experience, as I say below, it is one that holds up empirically.  Just because there may be exceptions to the rule--ie., you and I perhaps, at least in our intent--does not mean the rule doesn't exist.  In fact the exception proves the rule--as does your need to work so vigorously to show us how "YOU didn't raise your kid that way...". You postured that way bc you KNOW expectations are otherwise and you KNOW this racist behavior is typical--quite apart from whether it is typical of you, on which I have no basis for judgment.

 

~~~

Ms. Yolanda,

As a young white (originally working-class) woman trying to develop my anti-racist capabilities for a few years, I heartily agree!! YOu took something I see all the time...in SOO many contexts...one of my biggest stumbling-blocks...and hit the nail of the well-said head.  This scapegoating mentality is EVERYWHERE in my discussions with friends, acquaintances, etc., most especially from people who are otherwise some of hte most astute, engaged, PC-ified people.  I do believe this absolutely is typical, and that it is a most fascinating "phenomenon" indeed--albeit a whiny, most obnoxious one.  It boils down to trying to deny a whole other realm of existence because they think their agenda is just so much more important that all THOSE folks (who've been getting so much attention and privilege and stuff for their oppression) should just go and shut up.

I wonder where we derive such entitlement from? 

It's funny, for in the eyes of our rich straight white dude, the perspective of the 'expendables' must seem just so nonthreatening. For him, there's nothing standing in the way of cashing in the tokens of whiteness, while we--as women, Jews, queers, (i'm not jewish, and not honestly queer either), whoever--clutch our cherished tokens and covet every ounce of entitlement it might bring us. It is sad to me that from the second to the third wave (of feminism...ie., from teh 60's to the 2000's...) THIS--not solidarity with brownfolk--has been the overall reaction of oppressed whitefolk: a crouching, visceral, oh-so-defensive recoil I just pray a dose of dignity shalll have us released from.

 The real sad part is that these are precisely the demographic groups of whitefolk--the toilers, the poor, the FEMALE, the QUEER--who should have a hope! -who SHOULD know about oppression dynamics--and thus understand white supremacy--better, vis a vis our interactions with "the man." But, alas: by and 99.99999% large, we haven't. White supremacy will take longer to dismantle.  It's been this MOST peculiar instituation and we just have to keep fighting. 

 

Care to help me sharpen my axe?

Not being white I wonder if you are just seeing the tip of the iceberg, but I'll tell you: my good friends say shit that make me wanna vomit.  They disturb me more any random obnoxious white dude. And THEY are the ones who make me totally understand why most folks of color hold me at a presumed...distance of awareness before racial poltics are discussed.

We seriously need to cut the shit: racism is DEADLY!!  I've never been threatened with death--with search by the police...--because I'm female.  Or because my family was blue-collar.  But being in the wrong place at the wrong time--or just in your OWN neighborhood--might be deadly for anyone of color.  This I've finally come to udnerstand. to recognize. We can talk about healthcare (.....on and on!) and about how being uninsured my entire life, I was "at risk" in no small way.  And yet, controlling for $ at every income bracket, every level of insurance coverage....the discrepancy (or: "disparity") in HEALTHcare--as with so many things--still comes down to race.  Teh risks of my life were/are less deadly because I'm white; my family's lives were/are less danger-ridden because they're white. We were helped by other things almost wholly dependent on being White (my grandpa was a GI...).

 This doesn't make me deny that we (yes, whites) need healthcare--OR that it sucks to be poor and all too often to be female.  But NEITHER does how much it sucks to be poor and female make me deny that it would suck MORE (probably....most times) to be poor, female, and BLACK!!   Somehow in recognizing their own oppression SOOOO many whitefolks find this urgent need to reach for denial....about race, so conveneintly...to justify their (newfound? qualified? threatened? tenuous?) oppressed status.  ~~WHY?  Being a woman--or being a Jew, or being piss-ass poor, or laboring majorities of your days away to debts, or being QUEER--should speak loud enough, without delegitimizing large segments of the population and enforcing White supremacy in the process. The fact that they do so--detracting from their "own" fight--speaks volumes to how deep an affliction this racism thing really is.

It's like, somewhere in our cerebellum, it sticks so hard we can't shake it even when we try. 

 Suggestions for how I can do so--and help "my kinds" do so (!)--would be welcome.

Brittany Porter

Brittany Porter says:

ps (speaking of pissing contests!!)

 

That dude's behavior wreaks of such misogyny.  

Honora Price-Laszlo

Honora Price-Laszlo says:

To Miss Yolanda

Please don't be guilty of the same sweeping statements you accuse others of making.  I am a white 51 year old Jewish-descent woman who has always taught her children that 1) "Thanksgiving" is nothing to celebrate, unless you like to celebrate the genocide of a people and the stealing of their land, and 2) the full history of the African people in this country is much more than you can usually find in your textbooks, and that anyone who thinks 9/11, or Timothy McVeigh, was the first incident of terrorism on this country's soil doesn't know much about that history, the Night Riders, Rosewood, and on and on.  "White folks" don't all scapegoat and diminish the suffering of people of color.  There are plenty of "aware" white people that don't engage in this, nor do they compare levels of suffering.  I do hope, though, that you have also made the effort to learn about exactly how all groups, including Jewish and LGBT, have suffered at the hands of the majority culture over the centuries, and who continue as do people of color to suffer torture, death and oppression in various places around the world, including the US.  I'm not gay, but I have gay friends and relatives, and I think it's very sad how a portion of the African-American religious community turns a blind eye to the violence perpetrated against the gay community, or worse even condones it as "God's judgment."  Sometimes it's not that the suffering is compared - it's being aware that people who hate repeatedly use the same sentence structures.  Take things said against and about black people from 50 years ago, and you can often plug in "gays" and hear the things said today about them.  Please don't be brainwashed by majority culture bigotry - oppressed peoples of all types should stand together.

Frederic Christie

Frederic Christie says:

Agreed, But Why?

Honora: I honestly don't see the point of your comment as regarding Tim's piece. Tim was only saying that people who bother ranking the Holocaust and want to enshrine it as the worst slaughter in history (as if one of the top five to ten isn't sufficient) or say that the mass extermination of Native Americans wasn't genocides are doing injustice to us all. Tim was saying nothing about Jews writ large, but just those individuals who make that argument.

As far as homophobia in the black community: Awful, of course, and part of the way that oppressive systems use divide and conquer mechanisms to make sure that the oppressed don't band together. The same can be said, and has been forcefully by Bell Hooks and others, about sexism in black movements and racism in feminist movements.

peter morris

peter morris says:

well, hello there.

I especially liked the characterization of your debate as "oppression olympics". Watch one person get shot and bleed out in front of you, or, as I did, deliver someone to the Morial Convention Center two days after Katrina. Actually witness the machinery of death at full chat. Comparisons fail thereafter. The Nazi program was, so far as I can tell; to separate people from their property, to extract whatever living value that could be extracted from them, then to kill them. The american slavery program was the same but for the property part at the beginning. The native american program skipped the middle part. The problem starts when you treat other people like objects or as a commodity.

Megan Martin

Megan Martin says:

I think this discussion is a

I think this discussion is a very important one--how our education system needs to change. If we are going to make any progress in reducing prejucide, it is our teachers who need to be aware of what and how they are teaching. I like how Mr. Wise advocates for a view of history that includes not only the truth about how cruel European invaders were to indigenous peoples, but also how not ALL Europeans acted in this way. I think it can be easy to argue in a very one-sided manner about how history happened, but it is crucial that history be presented to our students as accurately as possible.

 I also wanted to comment on the discussion between Ms. Carrington and Ms. Price-Laszlo. While I think it's clear that generalizations will get us nowhere, and I do believe that all kinds of people should work together to stand up to oppression, I also believe that it is important to distinguish between different peoples' experiences with oppression. I don't think that comparing different levels of oppression is helpful, but I do think the most important thing we need in order to move forward is to understand how and why different kinds of prejudices occur. It's important to recognize the unique experiences of every group of oppressed people.

ephraim oakes

ephraim oakes says:

Do you think it's at all

Do you think it's at all useful to differentiate between kinds of genocide, not for the purpose of ranking which is worse opression oympics style, but to come to a better understanding of how and why these horrific acts of racisim happen?  From where i stand, genocide by systematic, premeditated intent (e.g. Nazism or the Armenian genocide) is different from genocide as a neglectful byproduct of other kinds of equally horrific and systematic racist and colonial acts (e.g. slavery or colonization) and both of those are different than genocide by massively violent outburst in a time of socio-political instability (e.g. Rawanda).  Saying that one sort is worse than the other makes no sense at all - how can you possibly rank events at that degree of horror and inhumanity - but conflating their differences doesn't make much sense to me either.

Tim Wise

Tim Wise says:

The point is, deaths from

The point is, deaths from enslavement and conquest were NOT merely accidents, or happenstance, or incidental. They were often quite deliberate and desired (in the case of conquest)--I mean, the colonists really did want the Indians to die, and celebrated when they did--and the slavers during the middle passage knew that most Africans captured would die before making it to the new world (most did, either on the trek to the sea or on the journey over). So, they captured as many as possible, in order to guarantee against losses. That is deliberate, and thus intentional, if intent is to have any meaning at all. So I see no need to differentiate, unless we are merely pointing out the varying historical antecedents to genocides, or the interesting historical differences in the way it transpires, in certain cases. But the danger with pointing out these differences as "intentional" versus, as you said, "a neglectful byproduct," is that it ends up amounting to a value judgment of sorts, whether or not that is your intent. Even the language of "byproduct" suggests a lower degree of evil, as if it were a passive process, almost un-desired by those responsible, when it was anything but.

ephraim oakes

ephraim oakes says:

There is some sort of

There is some sort of implicit ranking going on even if we take it as a given that colonization (which results in genocide) and slavery (which results in genocide) are as attrocious/evil/inhumane as genocide qua genocide?

Frederic Christie

Frederic Christie says:

Sure, But...

I do agree that at least colonization is better than extermination. Slavery versus extermination, though, is much harder. Some might argue that killing someone is less of an imposition of their liberty than enslaving them and their children; similarly, others may argue that killing would be MERCIFUL given the horrible indignity and suffering that American-style slavery causes.

But the point is that these are false dichotomies. The genocide of the Native Americans was not just colonialism; it was genocide qua genocide, extermination qua extermination, with tens of millions killed, a death toll rivalling the Nazis in absolute numbers despite the much smaller populations in question. And treatment of blacks included more than slavery, but also lynching, KKK-style terror, death during the Civil War, Jim Crow, etc. So we ARE talking about extermination and death too, not just colonization and slavery.

Frederic Christie

Frederic Christie says:

I Think You're Missing the Point

Ephraim: I agree with the fundamental thrust of your point. That is, the Holocaust, slavery and the treatment of blacks (and in turn contrasted to the treatment of Africa and Africans), colonial atrocities in general, and the extermination of the Native Americans all are very different. Hell, the atrocities committed against Native Americans varied from decade to decade too. These aren't simple questions.

That having been said, the genocide of the Native Americans lies between two of your categories. It's true that until Columbus came to the Americas, there was no widespread racial animosity against the aboriginal people of the Americas. But afterwards, there certainly was, castigating them as savages with plenty of racialized and exterminatory language. It is true that the process is somewhat different. The Nazis were repressing inwards: They targeted their own population. The European colonizers of the Americas repressed outwards: They subjugated and exterminated people who happened to be on land they wanted. That leads to different dynamics. What it doesn't lead to is any moral difference that's worth ranking. Sure, killing your own people is horrible and a violation of trust... then again, at the least you're staying in your own backyard.

Incidentally, Rwanda is a complex topic. I agree with your characterization of socio-political instability, but I think "massively violent outburst" might obscure the intensive state involvement in the atrocities, which were quite organized and methodical, not at all as chaotic as Westerners like to think.

Tim isn't saying that there's no difference: Clearly, methods, actors, language, and durations vary quite a bit. Nazism killed within a few years, the Rwanda genocide in 100 days, the Native Americans over centuries. He's just trying to get at the magnitude of each act, all of which were atrocious, even if we buy the bromide that most of the deaths from disease were unintentional and unwelcomed.

Frederic Christie

Frederic Christie says:

Guilt

Tim: What I find most interesting, in light of this and the discussion of centuries of racism and oppression, isn't the people denying it with moves like this. Saying that Native Americans weren't exterminated is just mind-bogglingly stupid, and as Michael Moore points out, clearly these ideas are just losing traction, which is why we keep on hearing the conservative bellow of the dinosaur.

It's more like my friends, who know damn well that blacks never have gotten a fair shake and still aren't but don't know what to do. Any discussion of racism, they feel, is just a guilt trip... precisely because they know the problem is so intractable and don't know how to deal with. I suspect this undergirds most resistance to the idea...

A point I think is relevant to bring up: If it's not a big deal, just admit it. If you honestly think that racism is over or that the Native American genocide has been fully accounted for, just say those were bad things and be done with it. No reservations. If racism is really over, then clearly just saying for the sake of harmony that, yeah, racism was a bad thing and just acknowledging that is fine. But whites react to that angrily, because it's asking THEM, not someone else, to back down. To accept that they were wrong. And that's the crux of it.

We'd love not to admit that our ancestors did anything wrong, but how many black folks would like to say that their ancestors were A-okay, not slaves? How many Germans would like to pretend that their recent family members were not Nazis?

Frederic Christie

Frederic Christie says:

One Weakness...

Tim: That Prof. is a douchebag.

That having been said, I think that the disease issue is a little more complex. It is possible that had disease not killed many Native Americans, they could have fought back more extensively. Non-disease death of Native Americans was much more piecemeal; it took centuries to kill that many. Maybe the Native Americans could have finally organized and fought back, or maybe the settlers would have decided to stop exterminating because the costs were too high. It's hard to predict. I think your point is well-taken, but the fact is that the Europeans didn't plan on the smallpox deaths. That's irrelevant, of course, to determining the heinousness of the atrocity (even Hitler knew how bad it was), but there is some historical relevance there.

meme hee

meme hee says:

I also had a problem like

I also had a problem like that with someone in the alcohol rehab center. In the end, we got to the same conclusion, but I must say that it was hard to convince him about my believes.

Sherie Roberts

Sherie Roberts says:

Deliberate Genocide of Indians

Actually there was a deliberate attempt at genocide for the Indians. It wasn't mentioned that they were given blankets laced with small pox. In addition, introduced to alcohol when it was well known that they had a high intolerance for it.

ralph  lane

ralph lane says:

my holocaust, your holocaust

I appreciate the article detects the need for scrutinizing whether Nazi holocaust was exceptional. But the apt comparison is not to Columbus and Andrew Jackson but to the contemporaneous. The mass arrests of Japanese, and the mass extinction of civilian German and Japanese populations were holocausts. That inconvenient truth has needed to be denied in this country for half a century, in order to deflect criticism that we merely replaced the Nazi (with their heavy water and their scientists) race for world resistance to Bolshevism, and to rationalize the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

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